Lamp-Arboretum Project

1st Official Train Run - September 2009 You Tube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOXktCqx1mM

2009-09-22T20:28:00.000-07:00

Upper Loop Completed - August 2009

2009-09-19T06:18:00.000-07:00

Work In Progress - July 11, 2008

2008-07-12T06:18:00.000-07:00

Here's a couple of pictures from the site taken on July 11, 2008.

Deliveries of Large Stone, 3/4" Blue Stone, Wall Keystones & Stone Dust

2008-06-22T14:00:00.000-07:00

At our most recent work session.

The wall keystones shown above were donated by the

Demarest Garden Club's President, Mr. Paul Ascione.

Mike & John admiring the large stone.

Demarest Digest Article

2008-06-22T12:09:00.000-07:00

The project has received a write-up in the June 2008 edition of the Demarest Digest. Under the heading of Demarest Garden Club - Summer Activities reads the following: ------"Ed's Railroad," a garden railroad of miniature tracks, trains, plantings and models of Demarest historic sites that is being installed in Davies Arboretum in memory of Edward Lamp by the Lamp Family and the GRRNNJ (Garden Railroaders of Northern New Jersey). Trains will run on a posted schedule and powered by batteries or to-be-developed solar power devices.

Large Stone Delivery & Paving Stone Donation

2008-06-07T06:04:00.000-07:00

On Thursday, June 5th we received a delivery of large stones that will be used on the layout's upper level. A breif video documenting the delivery is on "youtube" and you can view it using the link below:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=O5SJBfoiCa0

While we were at the arboretum, we met a gentleman who will be donating large wall keystone pavers that we can use for the outer border around the raised portion of the layout. Two of the pavers are shown below:

The Layout Location Is Now Leveled

2008-05-01T11:01:00.000-07:00

Some significant progress has been made in recent days. Judith found an approved vendor for top soil and made arrangements to have 20 yards delivered to the site. On Tuesday of this week, Larry and his work crew (consisting of Jude, Gene and two day laborers) moved the earth onto the layout and compressed and leveled it. The pictures below tell most of the story. Since Judith was also the person taking the pictures, there are none of her shoveling and filling the many wheel barrels full of soil that was redistributed over the site.

Earthday 2008

A SOLAR POWER PRIMER

2008-03-06T08:03:00.000-08:00

One of Phil's recent emails contained an interesting link that provided a good study in the basics of harnessing solar power. If you'd like to pursue it, the website is:
http://www.hightechscience.org:80/solar_express.htm
and about 2/3 down the page look for the title:

Here's how a Solar System Works

If you become interested in pursuing the subject even further there are additional technical links below that article for you to browse.
Good Stuff! Thanks Phil.

Phil's Remarks on diagrams, etc.

2008-03-03T13:00:00.000-08:00

Attached Dwg 2.23 (see below) shows what we've considered doing, to help visualize & for discussion.
Dwg 2.24 (see below) shows an alternative arch to join the raised areas, using less soil and rock. Perhaps a 2x12 for arch or ?
Easiest straight tunnel? Large plastic pipe or 2x12 sides & roof or ?
Solar (maybe pole mounted 20"x25") with 1 AGM battery, inexpensive regulator, DPST on/off switch and 2 hard wired controllers - seems simple enough. 13v off battery and 17v in sun. The two poles are to connect the track and also bypass the regulator when running trains to get the extra voltage out of the solar collector.
Question of storage: A partially buried Gang Box (Mike G offered one) dressed up with wood could provide secure storage for trains, battery etc.
Alternatively, since an AGM batt doesn't give off gas, it could be buried in a cooler box, with trains brought in as desired (since its track power).
Grading: If Bobcat not forthcoming for smoothing site and area around, hand grading on high South side could be done by further piling up the soil from the sides to shape up the South hump.
The lower North side would be graded and heaped up with delivered material right in place (small truck).
Temporary plastic sheets could be used at border & as cover to control runoff, while we establish shape.
When that's underway, could start bending track to a template, 4' Radius, 5', or 6'.
Schedule: On milder days could start working soon. (57degrees today).

Phil's Diagrams 3/4/08 - - # 2-23 upper and # 2-24 lower diagram

2008-03-03T12:55:00.000-08:00

Minutes from 2/21/08 Layout Design Meeting

2008-02-28T12:19:00.000-08:00

Layout Shape
We had a consensus that a bowtie/dog-bone shaped layout with two separate loops is our initial target plan for the overall shape. As a fallback, we could do a single loop, but it was agreed to make our best effort for two loops during the initial effort.

Floating or Mounted Track Layout
Some sections of the layout will have the track secured by mounting it to TREX configurations. This will help secure it to the original spot. Other sections will not be mounted, so in general the track mounting will not have the TREX frequency of a completely TREX mounted layout.

Battery to Track vs. Battery to Engine
We’re investigating a solar solution to help keep a locally stored battery charged and ready for use. This battery would supply power directly to the track. However, if that does not materialize, we still have the alternative of a battery placement in a box or gondola car and having that power source wired to select engines. More to come . . .

Fill & Leveling Effort
Judith Lamp will continue to pursue making contact with Denny Wiggins to determine if he’s willing to use his landscaping equipment (i.e.: Bobcat) to help us level the area and perhaps assist us with any needed fill. It might be good if Jude could arrange a brief daytime meet with Denny & us so that he could see the target area and get a clearer idea of what we have in mind,

The Demarest Garden Club
Judith will continue to be our liaison with the Demarest Garden Club and will seek whatever needed approvals from them and town permits, etc.

Border Stones – Round / Flat and other border material
There’s a quantity of round stones readily available, but flat stones may do a better job in defining the perimeter of the layout as well ease of use to build a low profile border which will help retard any fill from being washed away. More to come . . . . .

Type of track medium

Aluminum track will be used for the layout. The Lamps already have a substantial amount of that type of track available, so the acquisition cost of the needed additional track sections will be minimized.

Attendees: Judith Lamp, John Lamp, Mike Gruber, Phil Radomsky, John Walther, Gene Maimin

Phil's Note of 2/20/08

2008-02-21T09:29:00.000-08:00

On 60+ degrees Monday, put in 6 stakes at approx. location & took elevations to see possibilities of regrading. See attached sketch.

Pat from Davies came by and reviewed that an ambulance had plenty of room to get by.

She preferred that NE corner be rounded off, as we had been discussing.

She also wanted adequate clearance for a single style mower between the bench and the layout (if it's going to stay grass there).

Pat also indicated that the small bush was not particularly a good specimen and therefore expendable.

She requested the pachysandra be put aside for their sale, if possible, but also not to disperse the weed vine in there, that they're trying to eradicate.( They'll be active again 3/15)

Discussion: Town in general requires a permit for any extensive trucking in to raise grade. This being town property makes that especially relevant.

Limited cut & fill along with some new fill and rocks sounds more readily acceptable.

Pat mentioned that this area had been an old outbuilding kitchen on the old estate.

I was able to move the rock in the center - it's not an outcropping.

Curt Springstead - February 19, 2008

2008-02-19T09:45:00.001-08:00

Looks like I will not be able to make it Thursday, work is closing in.
The only things I was looking to advocate for or to learn are:

I like the idea of working with the terrain we have been given rather than creating a new place, less work and it keeps the area more natural which I think is important for the arboretum.
Curious if we have plans for structures; period, specific types (station etc), construction material, how to retain in place, etc.
We keep getting concerns about vandalism, is there evidence that is a problem?

Sorry I can't make it, I will look for the blog report

Meeting on 2/21/08 - Design Plan Discussion - Judith Lamp's Home

2008-02-09T10:39:00.000-08:00

A meeting has been scheduled for Thursday, Feb. 21 to be attended by those who submitted layout and design ideas or expressed an interest in pariticpating in the design phase of the project (scheduled start time: promptly at 1:45 PM).

If you wish to attend, please contact me (Gene Maimin) at:
genem@optonline.net
so I can add you to the guest list.

Judith Lamp's - Current Remarks on the postings . . .

2008-02-09T10:14:00.000-08:00

. . . . Pat (who heads up the Davies Arboretum Group) mentioned that Denny Wiggers (an Arboretum member and volunteer) had offered his help to the Garden Club and Pat spoke of having him level the area. That might be better than bringing in fill.
Phil's picture is wonderful and if my memory serves me the area is very rocky so we may be able to use what is there.
The ideas are marvelous, what a creative group of people! It will be difficult to choose what to do as all the ideas are wonderful.
The Garden Clubs of new Jersey (the state organization) has become aware of the project from the President of the Demarest Club. The railroad has created a lot of interest and excitement at the State level.

Phil's Photo Find in a Garden Railways Mag.

2008-02-08T19:13:00.000-08:00

Phil says:

. . . . . thought it was interesting to see what someone else did with a similar space. It will take a certain amount of rock work to get all the verticals needed to fit our more complicated track plan.

Gene says:

That's a sweet looking layout!

New Diagrams from Phil R. - 2/8/08

2008-02-08T19:10:00.001-08:00

Phil R.'s Diagrams & Remarks - 2/1/08

2008-02-01T12:52:00.001-08:00

On 1/28 I laid out some logs @ corners trying to match Gene's photo while missing a small tree, and took the attached elevations. With that location, the -27" corner squeezes the path/road that leads in from the gate (cable is just hanging at gate, not locked.)
I now understand that the Arboretum peoples had indicated that the tree could go if necessary, and therefore I'm sure the actual location would be more parallel & centered more toward the bench, reducing the slope and away from the path.
The sketch still gives a general idea of how the elevations run in the area, just ignore the box. A kidney bean shape might fit in further from the path, involve less slope, run a little deeper and still be acceptable.
Per some of your discussions, attached is one idea with a high track & a separate low track. The dog bone could be bent more to give more depth etc.

Larry Guider's Additional Clarification

2008-01-31T20:27:00.000-08:00

Curt,
Thank you for your response and your expertise will I am sure be needed when the laying of the actual track goes down ( at my house too! :).

But please don't misconstrue my point here. I offered the estimate of cubic yardage as a simple FACT and not a prohibitive FACTOR.

30 - 40 yards was the recommendation before I saw the site and that purpose was to elevate it beyond ground level or "to simply fill in whatever border wall was decided upon" because it made sense to have it elevated above the surface, NOT FLAT ON THE GROUND so I agree with you there.

Two years ago one of my own jobs, I ( and JUST 1 Guatamalan worker ) did a grade change in Ridefield that took 57 ( yes, that's correct 57 triple axle tandem dumps loads over a 10 day period ) so like the battery powered train folks, I can spread 1 or 2 of them in the dark with my eyes closed! :) The direct was moved with a skid steer which may even be available here for a day ( my same friend )

If you were at the site you may have noticed that there is a gated access road down at the street no more than 40 yards away. Common sense dictates that the town or arboretum folks can have that open for two days when this gets done.

I like the idea of the build up because it will compliment the site with hard "earth" and I can't really explain what I have in mind in an email , it must be drawn rough.

And last as for "that flat surface" you mentioned. I would not want any part of a project that produced a "flat surface". The flat surface, once produced is just the imaginary plain on top of which the interior elevations grow ( rock cliffs , rock gardens, dirt grades and shrubbery ( I f--king love shrubery! ) .

Regards, Larry G.

Curt's Response to Larry

2008-01-31T08:56:00.000-08:00

Larry,
Good input, thanks for doing the research and I agree with all your comments. Wondering how we get 30 yards into the site, based on my visit it would need to be dumped by the street and then brought by hand into the site. Perhaps we can look creatively at the layout. On my small home demo layout I addressed a drop of over a foot in 16ft with a trestle at one end and digging a cut into the other. If we can get to 6-7 in drop that is 2% on just the 30 ft side. If we use a folded dog bone we can stretch the run to 70 feet or longer and only need to get to a 14" difference for 2%. Besides we can use the cut material to fill the other end the way the real RR's do. Lets not jump to building a flat surface unless we have to. Since the areas seems smothered in Pachysandra can we hit the area with Roundup to kill that off so we can see what we have in better detail? I know there is a rock in there, not sure how big or if it alone.
Curt

Larry Guider's Observations

2008-01-31T08:34:00.000-08:00

I also did a fly by yesterday with Gene, and I would say Phils 27 inch elevation change is darn close to exact and illustrates quite a bit more gradients than can be observed from the photo.

So much so, that "building up" the 15 x 35 foot parcel is no longer a "recommendation" but a requirement.

I will be sketching a rough idea and will forward it by Sunday to Gene for posting to the blog.

One thing I observed and must comment on. ....The arboretum is one super parcel land and when something looks that nice on a January day with leaves all over, you can imagine how nice it is on a sunny august afternoon. It is very nicely done.

My initial estimate as conveyed to Gene was that this project will require 30 * cubic yards of fill, give or take 5 yards and 1 mason dump truck ** worth of large rocks depending on the final plan and the size of any interior elevations ( highly recommended ) inside the track plan. That remains unchanged for the most part. If I am wrong it was because the estimate was short by 5 yards and not long.

FYI * 30 cubic yards is a little more than one of those huge triple axle tandem dump trucks and ** a mason dump truck is typically considered a two to -three ton small dump truck.

Incidentally, Mike's track plan was an excellent one and he should be commended. In deferring to Judith's concern about grade, I would lose the overpass / underpass, and make the two lines independent ( but not because I think grade would be a problem). I just think the same plan converts essentially and easily to an outer "lower" line and an "inner" upper line.

On Phil's battery / solar idea........awesome.

I think running battery powered trains,while great for those folks who can wire them in the dark with eyes closed are great. Unfortunately, time will demonstrate that many folks will be removed from the loop here because of the constraints imposed by "battery powered only" trains.

That being said, if that is the only train that can run there , so be it, it works for me..

That also being said , if a couple of enclosed auto batteries charged by a solar panel which is not cost prohibitive, makes this a track powered operation, it is an excellent idea. I would think the arboretum folks would even support the idea of solar power.

Anyway, just a few of my thoughts after seeing the site.

Larry G.

Phil Radomsky's Thoughts For Discussion

2008-01-30T21:36:00.000-08:00

Battery could be plugged into track connection, reducing the need for special battery powered engines. Could still always run self powered engines.
Possibility of leaving the batteries on site, say 2 car batteries, charging with solar, and/oroccasionally charging with a cord/adapter from car (should last very long time).
One driveway not that far away.
Not sure of need and/or aesthetics of raising wholearea. Possibility of s/s cable with tubular turnbuckles & 4 posts to mark off area, or aesthetic alternative. (Existing area has many different styles/materials, question of how to blend in.) Very high end neighborhood, simple fence will either stop or nothing will.
Took rough grades today - 27" difference in elevation diagonally. Possibility of incorporating existing grades into design rather than moving tons of material? Raise grade under track only, to level,rather than whole area?
Aluminum flex track could be much easier/cheaper to install/replace. Less valuable to steal. Large radiiwe're talking about is easy to belly bend to atemplate. I've got a .250 Llagas bender to blend in the ends.
My aluminum Llagas track on dirt, grit, & gravel is running for 15 years & ties & track still fine, (I just knocked on wood to keep it that way).
After we hash out generalities, we also might come upwith an alternative footprint in the same area, still limited, but more natural, less square, making betteruse of grades, less work, larger radii, better aesthetics that we could propose. (I can dream can'tI?)
I realize some people might find rigid sectional track easier to layout, but then the ground (roots, rocks,trees, etc.) has to be made to fit, which can be problematic.

Many Items Still To Be Determined:

2008-01-29T10:02:00.000-08:00

Curt recently asked the following:

Since we are going battery power what track are we planning to use?
Do we expect to stay with sectional track?
I noticed a bit of a grade for the site when I visited, are we limited if we regrade in any way?
Specifically are there any guidelines for material to use for a retaining structure or fill if we need to raise an area?

The track questions can be answered with input from our GRRNNJ people, which I'd appreciate any and all opinions. However, for some guidance regarding the last two bullets, I'm asking Judith Lamp to respond, since she's our liaison with the Arboretum.

Mike Gruber's Layouts & Recommendations

2008-01-28T10:06:00.001-08:00

Mike's Recommendations and Notes:

Rail Bed on plan to be raised to prevent damage to track and to allow better viewing.
Weed barrier cloth to be put under track.
All curves to be 6' Radius or 12' Diameter so that larger engines can be run on layout.
4 Aristo Rerailer sections to be installed.
Ground cover to be placed by rails.
Rail bed to be 3/4" bluestone
Ballas to be stonedust
Track to be level and straight (a must)
Curves to be banked
Requires a commitment from members to maintain track
These drawings are only a proposal and subject to change
Any change could affect the grade & elevations
137' Track required
4 Rerailing sections required.

A Layout Scheme From Garden Railways Mag.

2008-01-28T09:03:00.000-08:00

In the February 2008 issue of Garden Railways Magazine is a simple but elegent single loop layout. The article, which begins on page 54 and ends on page 59 has many pictures of the finished product. Perhaps some of the more appealing elements from this layout, can be incorporated in our final product. Here is the scanned image of the lower portion of page 56 which contains a diagram and some stats that may be useful as we go forward with our project.

Some Questions From Curt Springstead About The Project

2008-01-25T12:09:00.000-08:00

In a recent email, Curt Springstead asked:
The track and other materials will be funded how?
Design needs to consider some sort of storage facility for trainsduring the operating season between sessions. What about winter storage?
Will there be a need for us to come up with a way to have someone setup and run the trains?
Any kind of commitment to the arboretum to do that?
Same question for maintenance of the area of the track.
I am assumingthat the area is open to the public so we can get over there whenever we need.

Judith Lamp responded:
The funding is coming from friends and family who came to me with the idea.
The trains will have to battery operated as there is no electricity at the arboretum.
The storage issue is still up in the air as the Garden Club has storage boxes only at the arboretum. Winter home will be at the home of one of the members.As for operation, members of the Garden Club will have to learn (me included as my experience is track power only).
The arboretum is green acres property and accessible to the public at all times.
Members of the garden club maintain the arboretum, but the railroad will be and has been placed in my hands

Target Area for Layout

2008-01-25T10:18:00.001-08:00

This picture, taken in early January, shows Judith Lamp with two fellow members of the Demarest Garden Club. They are standing near the top of the proposed 15' x 30' layout area. The super-imposed red lines are two of the approximate borders; the actual border is closer to the bench (on the 30' side) and is behind the three ladies (on the 15` side).

Davies Arboretum Map - Location

2008-01-25T10:07:00.000-08:00

The white rectangle inside the plum colored area shows the approximate location of the planned layout.

Located on Anderson Avenue, between Orchard and Robin Rds.

in Demerest, N.J. The public parking area is designated by the dark green area and is for head-in parking. Also, there's a dirt road that the arboretum uses that runs near our layout area. This road exits onto Anderson Avenue but is not open for general public use or access.